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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 11, 2015 14:07:21 GMT -6
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 25, 2015 17:20:02 GMT -6
A newspaper search from an out of town paper... the Spokesman Review, 9/26/1972 indicated that there were no signs of a struggle where the girls were found and that no alcohol was found in their systems.
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 25, 2015 18:07:35 GMT -6
I think an argument can be made that Carolyn struggled with her killers. There was a burn mark on her one arm, her red windbreaker was half off, and her glasses which she always wore were missing.
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 25, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -6
I think an argument can be made that Carolyn struggled with her killers. There was a burn mark on her one arm, her red windbreaker was half off, and her glasses which she always wore were missing. A struggle was indeed possible, but maybe not at the scene. It is possible she struggled with her killer in the car...while he was smoking? Her glasses get knocked off and she may have had her windbreaker off to begin with. Did Carolyn have any bruising on her arms or face? Here is a picture of the location of their discovery. It seems pretty clear that the car parked in that lot and the girls were walked to where they were executed, which by my calculation was right in the area of the baseball infield..
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 25, 2015 18:19:50 GMT -6
It was a burn mark such as one would get from a tight grip, not from a cigarette. Also, it wouldn't be necessary to walk the girls from the parking lot when you could easily drive right onto the bridle path and then exit onto Payne Drive.
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 25, 2015 18:29:26 GMT -6
It was a burn mark such as one would get from a tight grip, not from a cigarette. Also, it wouldn't be necessary to walk the girls from the parking lot when you could easily drive right onto the bridle path and then exit onto Payne Drive. True enough..that would seem to indicate a good familiarity with the area...right? And it wouldn't make any sense to have killed them elsewhere and rode around with them in the vehicle. An idea where and when they had their last meal? The newspaper isn't clear about autopsy results...
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 25, 2015 18:50:55 GMT -6
I think it could well have been a carry out meal from Motor World.
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 26, 2015 4:10:54 GMT -6
I think it could well have been a carry out meal from Motor World. Thats a very good assumption. How can we find out? Has anything been discussed with Debbie's co-workers from that time? Do we know who any of them are, and is it possible to find them via Facebook?
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 26, 2015 11:16:23 GMT -6
Only 2 employees were ever mentioned in news articles. Sharon Lawrence a manager and Lester Donald a cashier.
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 26, 2015 13:13:12 GMT -6
_ So here is Carolyn's Obit. I can find none for Debbie. It does name family members so that could be a start.
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 26, 2015 18:14:26 GMT -6
I saw Debbie's obit, may have been in the Sun Times. She was waked from Patka's at 1258 W 51st and her mass was at St John of God.
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 27, 2015 3:09:49 GMT -6
Carolyn would have been in the graduating class of 1976, assuming she would have stayed at St. Augustine's. I no longer have a membership to Classmates, but perhaps Mark does. It is there we can begin our search for those who knew her.
I'll contact Mark and see what he says.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 28, 2015 16:47:51 GMT -6
Hi Fellas,
I do not have access to Classmates. My wife Susan graduated from St. Augustine in 1974. She knew Carolyn, but not very well. Sue maintains Carolyn hung out with some tough people. Every year St. Augustine Alumni Association sends my wife a letter with details of an upcoming Reunion and every year she declines, don't understand. I tried to get her to go this year to attempt some contacts with former classmates and ask about Carolyn, but no luck. The Reunion is set for March 29, 2015 at the Lexington House in Hickory Hills. The Reunion letter gives a contact of a Carolann Stashak, Class of 64 for sending responses castashak@gmail.com. Perhaps we should forward a message to Stashak and request her assistance? If we prepare a letter, I would send it to two of my wife's old friends. Jimmy should I forward a copy of this letter for your wife?
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Post by Jimmy C on Feb 28, 2015 18:28:33 GMT -6
No, she doesn't want any part of St. Augustine. She graduated in 68 and has no knowledge of anything related to the case.
I will try to renew a subscription to Classmates Otherwise, we have no source of leads in the case.
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eric
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Post by eric on Feb 28, 2015 19:59:22 GMT -6
Carolyn was an 8th grader, and would have graduated in 1973.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 1, 2015 9:03:44 GMT -6
OK and to clarify, my wife graduated from St. Augustine Grammar School in 1970 and St. Augustine High School in 1974. Did Debbie attend St. Augustine at any time?
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eric
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Post by eric on Mar 1, 2015 16:33:50 GMT -6
I know Debbie graduated from St John of God, but I'm not positive that that was her only grammar school. She also went to Gage Park HS thru her sophomore yr.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 2, 2015 11:57:55 GMT -6
I took out a 3 month subscription for Classmates, a few names from St Augustine Grammar School class of 1973 to look at. More importantly I made connections with a Frank Pajak on St Augustine Facebook who was a classmate and neighbor of Carolyn. Frank suggested I join Back Of The Yards FB and it looks like this will be helpful. A Joe Botti has posted on the page, who I learned from Eric is the guy who runs the Stonegreasers page. Many people appear to be reasonable sources of info, including Carolyn Sheehan aunt of Debbie and Diane Lou who claims she knows details. I think we should begin to contact people on the St A and BOTY FB pages, but wish to know first if Eric or Joe has already done so.
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Post by Jimmy C on Mar 2, 2015 15:03:43 GMT -6
I took out a 3 month subscription for Classmates, a few names from St Augustine Grammar School class of 1973 to look at. More importantly I made connections with a Frank Pajak on St Augustine Facebook who was a classmate and neighbor of Carolyn. Frank suggested I join Back Of The Yards FB and it looks like this will be helpful. A Joe Botti has posted on the page, who I learned from Eric is the guy who runs the Stonegreasers page. Many people appear to be reasonable sources of info, including Carolyn Sheehan aunt of Debbie and Diane Lou who claims she knows details. I think we should begin to contact people on the St A and BOTY FB pages, but wish to know first if Eric or Joe has already done so. Looks like we are making a little headway....
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eric
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Post by eric on Mar 20, 2015 10:35:54 GMT -6
There was a story that circulated and is still around today, that the girls had there last meal at the Tic Toc Snak Shop on the NE corner of 51st-Ashland, but skeptical of these claims. Apparently no employees remembered seeing them there that night, and since I heard more than once they had eaten there before, they probably would have been easy to remember. The time of the evening, etc. Another related story circulated that a trucker used to sleep in his cab across the street and was watching them that night, but unfortunately so many of these stories have no basis.
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Post by Jimmy C on Mar 21, 2015 8:18:34 GMT -6
There was a story that circulated and is still around today, that the girls had there last meal at the Tic Toc Snak Shop on the NE corner of 51st-Ashland, but skeptical of these claims. Apparently no employees remembered seeing them there that night, and since I heard more than once they had eaten there before, they probably would have been easy to remember. The time of the evening, etc. Another related story circulated that a trucker used to sleep in his cab across the street and was watching them that night, but unfortunately so many of these stories have no basis. If we could lock in where they ate that night we could start looking for people who worked there.
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eric
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Post by eric on Mar 21, 2015 16:58:33 GMT -6
I think the police just jumped to the conclusion that they had been in a restaurant-eatery, when Debbie could have brought food home from Motor World or perhaps had simply taken it from home.
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Post by Jimmy C on Mar 21, 2015 19:08:45 GMT -6
I think the police just jumped to the conclusion that they had been in a restaurant-eatery, when Debbie could have brought food home from Motor World or perhaps had simply taken it from home. There was a newspaper article that the cops were going to area restaurants to see if the place could be found. I could not find any follow-up if they were successful.
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eric
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Post by eric on Mar 22, 2015 14:50:41 GMT -6
There was never any mention in the local papers at least, that police believed they had found the site of there last meal.
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